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#81
Outside Work / Lightning Network
Last post by zack - March 13, 2016, 03:20:52 AMThe Lightning Network is implemented in the development branch of Flying Fox.
Here is a passing test-case that proves it.
https://github.com/BumblebeeBat/FlyingFox/blob/development/lightning_test.sh
Here is a passing test-case that proves it.
https://github.com/BumblebeeBat/FlyingFox/blob/development/lightning_test.sh
#82
Off Topic / Re: consensus method even chea...
Last post by psztorc - March 12, 2016, 11:09:02 PMQuote from: zack on March 10, 2016, 11:33:51 PM
All existing distribution mechanisms fail in one of two ways
Bitcoin's seems to be doing fine. To me, anyway.
#83
Off Topic / Re: consensus method even chea...
Last post by zack - March 10, 2016, 11:33:51 PMA blockchain has a mechanism for distributing coins. All existing distribution mechanisms fail in one of two ways:
1) They grow too slowly. They don't dilute shares when new investment happens. For example, in NXT, the only way to get coins is if you buy them from someone who already has some. You can't do work to create new coins.
2) They grow too fast. Miners are able to create coins at too low of a price. The excessive selling pressure from miners continuously lowers the value of shares. It is the cryptocurrency version of hyperinflation.
All existing blockchains distribute coins poorly because they tie the coin creation mechanism to the consensus mechanism.
Flying Fox fixes this. The consensus mechanism is disconnected from coin creation mechanism. The rate of coin creation adjusts so that it is never too slow or too fast.
1) They grow too slowly. They don't dilute shares when new investment happens. For example, in NXT, the only way to get coins is if you buy them from someone who already has some. You can't do work to create new coins.
2) They grow too fast. Miners are able to create coins at too low of a price. The excessive selling pressure from miners continuously lowers the value of shares. It is the cryptocurrency version of hyperinflation.
All existing blockchains distribute coins poorly because they tie the coin creation mechanism to the consensus mechanism.
Flying Fox fixes this. The consensus mechanism is disconnected from coin creation mechanism. The rate of coin creation adjusts so that it is never too slow or too fast.
#84
Off Topic / Re: consensus method even chea...
Last post by zack - March 10, 2016, 02:07:07 AMElectricity is a terrible way to store your wealth. Batteries cost more than the energy they can hold.
Converting your value into cryptocurrency lets you store it for the future.
Bitcoin miners also operate on the threshhold of profitability. They burn as much electricity as they get paid in bitcoins.
So I could ask the same of bitcoin: /why/ does anyone mine bitcoin? They don't seem to get anything out of doing so.
If it is true that miners need to make a sliver of profit, we could charge slightly less to produce coins. So 999 meals worth of electricity turns into 1000 meals worth of cryptocurrency.
If a miner manages to double the value of the system as measure in meals, then paying him a mere 0.05% of everything is a small cost.
Because of network effects, the coins probably increased in value (as measured in meals of food) by more than 0.05%
There are also arguments for why we should charge 1001 meals of electricity to create 1000 coins. Like the stuff Paul Graham said in his essay http://paulgraham.com/equity.html
I summarize his advise: Only dilute the shares if they are willing to buy in at a high enough price that the part of the company you own afterwards is worth more than what you owned before.
Maybe we need to do experiments to find the best price for producing coins.
Or we could use a prediction market to adjust the price over time. The prediction market could be maximizing market cap measured in meals, or value of a coin measured in meals, or some combination of those 2.
Or we could let the validators vote on how the price should change. Under Flying Fox consensus the distribution of validators is almost the same as the distribution of coin holders, so their incentive would be to choose the price that maximizes the value of the current coins as measured in meals.
Converting your value into cryptocurrency lets you store it for the future.
Bitcoin miners also operate on the threshhold of profitability. They burn as much electricity as they get paid in bitcoins.
So I could ask the same of bitcoin: /why/ does anyone mine bitcoin? They don't seem to get anything out of doing so.
If it is true that miners need to make a sliver of profit, we could charge slightly less to produce coins. So 999 meals worth of electricity turns into 1000 meals worth of cryptocurrency.
If a miner manages to double the value of the system as measure in meals, then paying him a mere 0.05% of everything is a small cost.
Because of network effects, the coins probably increased in value (as measured in meals of food) by more than 0.05%
There are also arguments for why we should charge 1001 meals of electricity to create 1000 coins. Like the stuff Paul Graham said in his essay http://paulgraham.com/equity.html
I summarize his advise: Only dilute the shares if they are willing to buy in at a high enough price that the part of the company you own afterwards is worth more than what you owned before.
Maybe we need to do experiments to find the best price for producing coins.
Or we could use a prediction market to adjust the price over time. The prediction market could be maximizing market cap measured in meals, or value of a coin measured in meals, or some combination of those 2.
Or we could let the validators vote on how the price should change. Under Flying Fox consensus the distribution of validators is almost the same as the distribution of coin holders, so their incentive would be to choose the price that maximizes the value of the current coins as measured in meals.
#85
Off Topic / Re: consensus method even chea...
Last post by psztorc - March 09, 2016, 11:44:48 PMQuote from: zack on March 09, 2016, 01:17:21 AMQuote from: psztorc on March 07, 2016, 03:55:46 PM
How, exactly, is the new system worth 40,000 meals of food (10K more), when nothing of interest seems to have happened?
Its worth 40k because D used POW to invest 10k into it to get control of 25% of the coins.
If 25% is worth 10k, then 100% must be worth 40k.
Yes, yes, obviously. But why did D invest 10k? He didn't seem to get anything out of doing so.
#86
Off Topic / Re: consensus method even chea...
Last post by zack - March 09, 2016, 01:17:21 AMQuote from: psztorc on March 07, 2016, 03:55:46 PM
How, exactly, is the new system worth 40,000 meals of food (10K more), when nothing of interest seems to have happened?
Its worth 40k because D used POW to invest 10k into it to get control of 25% of the coins.
If 25% is worth 10k, then 100% must be worth 40k.
Quote from: psztorc on March 07, 2016, 03:55:46 PM
Could the value have increased from 30,000 to 40,000 *without* D's contribution?
Advertising is another way to increase the value of a blockchain.
Quoting you from your essay "Nothing is Cheaper than Proof of Work":
So-called "alternatives" to Proof-of-Work "waste" just as much "work".
This "marginal cost" = "marginal revenue" concept actually applies to every transaction in the entire world, including all future blockchain tech.
#87
Off Topic / Re: consensus method even chea...
Last post by psztorc - March 07, 2016, 03:55:46 PMIt seems that no one is better or worse off. A B and C own 10,000 meals of food, before and after. D has 10,000 food meals, and switches them from one form to another.
How, exactly, is the new system worth 40,000 meals of food (10K more), when nothing of interest seems to have happened? Could the value have increased from 30,000 to 40,000 *without* D's contribution?
How, exactly, is the new system worth 40,000 meals of food (10K more), when nothing of interest seems to have happened? Could the value have increased from 30,000 to 40,000 *without* D's contribution?
#88
Off Topic / Re: consensus method even chea...
Last post by zack - March 05, 2016, 10:55:21 PMBefore dilution:
A owns 33% of the coins.
B owns 33% of the coins.
C owns 33% of the coins.
33% of the coins is worth about the same as 10,000 meals of food.
The investment that dilutes is:
D burns electricity worth about 10,000 meals of food in POW.
After dilution:
A owns 25%
B owns 25%
C owns 25%
D owns 25%
25% of the coins is worth the same as about 10,000 meals of food.
Maybe we should charge D a couple percentage higher or lower than that, I am not sure.
A owns 33% of the coins.
B owns 33% of the coins.
C owns 33% of the coins.
33% of the coins is worth about the same as 10,000 meals of food.
The investment that dilutes is:
D burns electricity worth about 10,000 meals of food in POW.
After dilution:
A owns 25%
B owns 25%
C owns 25%
D owns 25%
25% of the coins is worth the same as about 10,000 meals of food.
Maybe we should charge D a couple percentage higher or lower than that, I am not sure.
#89
Off Topic / Re: consensus method even chea...
Last post by psztorc - March 05, 2016, 02:59:46 PMWhy don't you write down an example of what you are talking about? Put all BTC and share-units in percentage terms. Do not say "50 BTC" or "1000 shares", just say "4% of the BTC" or "before the dilution, X owns 2% of the company".
#90
Design / Incentives / Game Theory / Hivemind Lightning Network Spe...
Last post by psztorc - March 05, 2016, 12:20:51 AMI put this here: http://bitcoinhivemind.com/blog/lightning-network
It has many advantages...instant trades (instant settlement), very very low transaction fees, no miner censorship of trades, no miner front-running.
Check it out!
It has many advantages...instant trades (instant settlement), very very low transaction fees, no miner censorship of trades, no miner front-running.
Check it out!