Blockchain for building upon

[zack]

I took down testnet last night.
Users were complaining of how annoying the dependence on getch is.
I rewrote a bunch of stuff to get rid of getch, and plan on re-launching the testnet tonight or tomorrow.

[psztorc]

I'm sorry to have missed it. I am trying to get version 1.3 of the Whitepaper out ASAP, but I am also very busy at my day job.

I think it may be done within 24 hours, though. I am excited because I think it may be the last version. Moreover, it switches to the Altcoin implemenation (probably WAY easier for people to understand), standardizes the language, and clarifies the Two Coins, better figures, etc.

But that has really been consuming my free time. After that I'm excited to look at this.

[zack]

I took out getch, and everything seems to work, so I re-launched the testnet.

[Max]

Can Truthcoin be coded in Serpent upon Ethereum ??
And if yes, why to bother with making own blockchains ?
Obviously Ethereum is more advanced tech than Bitcoin-likes. 

[zack]

Can Truthcoin be coded in Serpent upon Ethereum ??

Yes, truthcoin could be put onto ethereum instead of having it's own blockchain.
I think it is much easier to program in python instead of Serpent.
After we get the first version working in python, it is highly probable that we will port it to ethereum.

And if yes, why to bother with making own blockchains ?

1) a POS blockchain would have gas fees hundreds of times smaller than ethereum.
2) python is a lot easier to program in than serpent, fore example I use a large hashtable to store the blockchain, instead of having to pack everything into byte arrays.
3) I don't want to start over from scratch if Ethereum should die.

Obviously Ethereum is more advanced tech than Bitcoin-likes. 

The blockchain I wrote is not a copy of bitcoin. Whatever you are trying to say is not "obvious" to me.

[Max]

Thanks for detailed answer. 

I meant that ETH will have blockchain more compact 5 - 10 times,
than BTC-likes.
Yes, Ethereum is yet to be delivered.
But being written in Golang and if it will take off,
it will become big competitor to Truthcoin,
when somebody will  construct proper contracts.
Maybe it is something to keep in mind ?!

So far i see the one of the biggest problems with PMs : poor liquidity.
If there will be more PM platforms liquidity on any of them will be poorer 

[zack]

That is why truthcoin uses LMSR market maker prediction market. It has infinite liquidity.
LMSR markets function properly even if there is only one person betting.

Liquidity is a topic for a different thread.

[psztorc]

Max, you are indeed derailing this thread, which is about zack's blockchain.

There are already individuals working on an Ethereum version, namely martinBrown.

I don't see Ethereum and Truthcoin as competitors. If Ethereum were to implement Truthcoin as an Eth-contract, then that Eth-contract would compete with any Truthcoin blockchain(s). In the original whitepaper of January, I mentioned that Truthcoin may require Ethereum in order to exist.

Separately, I think that Ethereum, while hyped today, will not be very popular in the future. In fact, I believe that it is possible that Truthcoin will be the second of two blockchains, and that programmers will stop using Blockchains once they exist for money, namespaces, and data. If you'd like to discuss please post in the relevant thread.

[Max]

Hmm, i like your evaluating visions of how to develop Truthcoin.
My respect, psztorc !
I wish to trade some good and safe PM as soon as possible 
Good luck with Truthcoin project !

Actually i should be reading this also
http://forum.truthcoin.info/index.php/topic,27.0.html

[martinBrown]

There are already individuals working on an Ethereum version, namely martinBrown.

somnicule as well.

If Ethereum were to implement Truthcoin as an Eth-contract, then that Eth-contract would compete with any Truthcoin blockchain(s).
[...]
If you'd like to discuss please post in the relevant thread.

Maybe not. Discussion continued here.

[psztorc]

I'm going to be taking a close look at the newest version of this on Sunday...very much looking forward to it!

[zack]

On Sunday, it is my expectation that you will be able to do this list of things:
1) it should be able to connect to networking computer. if so, then you will automatically start downloading blocks within 15 seconds of turning it on.
2) mine a block and earn the reward in truthcoin.
3) spend truthcoin.
4) create a jury to own votecoins
5) spend the votecoins
6) ask the jury a decision
7) secret vote on the decision
reveal how you voted on the decision

I am not so good with user interfaces. I am not sure the right way to accept input for making prediction markets, so we cannot test these so well yet:
1) create a prediction market from a decision
2) buy/sell shares
3) SVD consensus to pay money to the winning share-holders
If you are willing to edit the python file, you might still be able to test them out.

If you make a list of what you want changed, then I will know what to do.
There are lots of places where I am unsure of vocabulary.

[psztorc]

Ok, it seemed cool but it was very difficult to tell what was going on from the terminal.

[1] You've misspelled: unzip mater.zip it should be 'master.zip'

[2] The reliance on rpy2 is crazy..it relies on a specific version of R, and it is so difficult to update R from within Ubuntu, that in order to do this I just VirtualBoxed a new Ubuntu. There's no reason to call the R code at all now that the python has been updated, if you're doing it in python.

I need to spend more time looking at it, trying to make a transaction. I think you should make a little 'demo' with functions for people to run.

[zack]

I just found out that the R code was already ported to python
This is great

I am sad that you were unable to get to the help system.
If you ask for help about any command, it gives an example of how to use that command.

I am not sure what you mean by 'demo'

[koeppelmann]

I am not sure what you mean by 'demo'

well, just a list list of "demo" commands. Sure you can look them up in the help but directly running a demo is often the easiest way to get started.

I did not managed to run it. I also used a fresh Ubuntu but pip (and other methods) fail to install numpy. Numpy is awesome but I guess I can not count the hours I spend compiling it...

One small mistake in your installation description:

Code Select Expand

sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install python-leveldb
pip install -r requirements.txt
wget https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/Truthcoin-POW/archive/master.zip
unzip master.zip
cd Truthcoin-POW-master

pip install -r requirements.txt should be the last step.

And by the way: if you don't read the whole forum it is relative hard to find this thread and the https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/Truthcoin-POW. Maybe Zack, you should start a new thread "Python implementation" in the Development section.